Group Conscience Topics
Treasury
- Advance Payments (1/08)
- Advance Payments (10/99)
- Annual Fees (1/00)
- Backup for Treasurer (4/08)
- Banking Options (4/04)
- Checking Account (8/98)
- GSO Contributions (4/16)
- Monthly Fees (4/12)
- OSO-AA (10/09)
- PayPal (10/06)
- PayPal Guidelines (1/07)
- Prudent Reserve Amount (7/04)
- Retention of Records (1/06)
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Advance Payments
Advance Payments (1/08)
Decision: Maintain an earlier group conscience decision to pay our email list service bill up to six months in the advance.
Proposal: On January 9, 2008, the Chair posted Agenda Item 3.2. She reported that many seemed to be in favor of maintaining the current payment schedule with Binhost. She closed the discussion and asked for headnods (yes) or head-shakes (no) to confirm consensus on the following:
"GROW authorizes the Treasurer to pay our email list service provider bill up to six months in advance, as per an earlier group conscience decision."
Advance Payments (10/99)
Beginning with the March invoice, we will change payment on account to Esosoft from semi-annual to annual. We will increase our prudent reserve to accommodate this change.
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Annual Fees
Annual Fees (1/00)
Decision: As there is no annual discount with the new mailing list service, we will pay on a monthly basis.
Comments: Due to an emergency change in our list service provider from Esosoft to World during the preceeding quarter, our list cost has increased.
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Backup for Treasurer
Backup for Treasurer (4/08)
A group conscience decision was made to have a non-rotating 2nd signer to assist the Treasurer.
Proposal: 2nd Signer: The current secretary is the 2nd signer for the GROW treasurer. As women from all over the world volunteer to become secretary, the issue of how we handle a backup signature has come up. The Chair presented three options:
Option 1 - A non-rotating position that included "ownership" for GROW, technical support for the Treasurer re. PayPal, and backup signature.
Option 2 - That Laura B. be approved as "a privileged person" who had access to the GROW online account and 4 previously signed checks to hold for emergency purposes
Option 3 - The Steering Committee would select someone to serve as a 2nd signer on checks; term to be concurrent with the Treasurer
Comments: 10 members responded. One thought we should let anyone around the world be backup to the treasurer The Business Chair regrets that she didn't adequately explain the great difficulties that U.S. banking laws create for non-residents to become 2nd signers for bank accounts - which is why the issue arose in the first place.
- Six members supported Option 2. Most said very little, other than that they agreed with the rationale. If this option were adopted, the records should show also that GROW must designate a person as "owner" and that the treasurer has asked for technical support for the PayPal account.
- One member said, "I am against giving any member of AA too much power. I generally do not like non-rotating positions...." Another responded to the non-rotating concept: "In response to this being a non-rotating position, there are AA, conference approved directives, that in certain situations someone is appointed on a non-rotating basis...."
- One person suggested a compromise solution. "I would support the "registered owner" of the Binhost and PayPal accounts as being the permanent second signer. We might want to consider specifying the position rather than the individual so that we don't have to revisit if, for some reason, the BinHost/PayPal ownership changes." Two people expressed support for this idea, which came near the end of the discussion.
For this four day period, we discussed the suggestion that GROW establish a non-rotating position that includes:
- Registered ownership for the Binhost account
- Registered ownership for the PayPal account
- Designated permanent second signer for the treasurer.
Six of the seven respondents voiced simple agreement. One expressed disagreement with having another rotating position and with the complexity of GROW jobs. She said, in part: "It seems that another permanent position has been suggested for treasury. I suggest we create non-rotating positions for all those positions requiring more effort than an average member is willing to put forth."
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Banking Options
Banking Options (4/04)
Decision: We agreed to let the treasurer/banking issue rest for the time being.
Proposal: TREASURER JOB DESCRIPTION: BANKING PROPOSAL
We agreed to ask a committee to research banking options and bring a proposal to the April 2004 business meeting. Cheryl D,. Cheryl T., Mage, and Karen W. volunteered.
Comments: In January we asked for a volunteer committee to research banking options and bring a proposal to this business meeting. Cheryl D,. Cheryl T., Mage, and Karen W. volunteered.
- Several members expressed concerns about a plan that creates two non-rotating trusted servants.
- One member supports the plan overall and suggested either putting an extended time limit on the the non-rotating positions or not allowing the non-rotating TS to have voting power on the Steering Committee.
- One member suggested reviewing the issues that led the group to approve a non-rotating co-archivist.
- One member reminded us that rotation ensures that all members share in service (per the AA Group pamphlet) and argued that the concerns of the banking committee are either immaterial to the current discussion or have been addressed by previous group decisions. She suggested that we hold off making a decision until after the next turnover.
- One member asked: "The proposal presented by the Committee said other online groups had been contacted. How were they resolving this problem? What kind of responses did you receive?" The Treasurer responded that many groups don't have treasurers, and they meet on free servers. One group has a permanent list owner and members occasionally send donations to that person to pay the bill. Another group has permanent bank account owner who forwards the bank statements to rotating treasurers.
- One member spoke to the issue of post 9/11 safety regulations.
- Another member pointed out that only 6 of 23 trusted servant positions are currrently available for members with less than one year and suggested that there may be different ways to fullfill the true spirit of rotation.
- Seven of the 22 members on this list have participated in this important discussion.
During this 4-day session we heard from several members who had not yet shared opinions.
- One likes the idea of a permanent bank account with a one year membership for the person who holds that account. The group treasurer, a rotating treasurer with six months of sobriety, could share responsibilities and records for this account, but not have access to it.
- Another supports the proposal and would also support making the permanent positions non-voting representatives of the Steering Committee.
- Another stated that she sees both pros and cons, pro being recognition of the banking difficulties, con being her dedication to the traditions and concepts. She also stated that she feels we need more time to discuss the issue adequately.
- Another member noted that should we make this change, we would also have to agree to change our "Traditions in Cyberspace," which states, "All trusted servant roles are term limited to allow for rotation of leadership." Cheryl T. responded that we should have changed our guidelines when the permanent Archivist position was established. She will ask to have it put on the agenda for July. Cheryl referred to a second tradition passage in the 12x12 to support a suggestion that we might include the requirement that the account owners be approved for continuation by a vote every two years. Jean responded that the idea made sense to her and that she would like to apply it to the permanent Archivist position as well.
- One member said it seemed like a "wise and careful" response in a manner that addresses AA principles and suggested that we consider this action for the archivist position as well. Another member responded that voting to re-elect (or not) would be keeping with the spirit of rotation, but could in reality be a vote based on the popularity of the account owners. She intended to say that it would NOT be in the spirit of rotation. She also suggested that the Treasurer and Archivist issues be discussed separately.
- A member stated her opinion that the treasurer should rotate and suggested a 3-year term instead of 2. The treasurer should be allowed to put the account in her own name. She wants to see a backup plan in place in the event that a treasurer is unable to do her duties to ensure that bills would be paid, perhaps keeping the World bill paid ahead as an insurance against emergency. Kris hopes everyone feels comfortable re-electing the same one or two trusted servants if they are the only willing and able members volunteering at the end of each term.
- This issue has generated considerable discussion. In total, 7 members have spoken in support of the proposal; 7 members have spoken against the proposal. Most vocal have been those who disagree with the proposal because of the permanency of the treasurer and back-up. In response to the concerns, one member suggested adding the following amendment to the proposal: "Every (X amount of time) the Chair will call for a vote of confidence, at which time any member can volunteer and/or nominate someone else for the position(s)."
- Referring to Tradition 8, a member remarked that although it doesn't directly deal with rotation as a principle, it does deal with the practicalities of AA work and the need to remain flexible. She suggested adjusting Treasurer requirements to achieve rotation, either by the vote of confidence/approval every two years or by changing Treasurers every two years or rotating between two people every term.
- A member who opposes the proposal on the basis of the rotation issue suggests choosing NOT to have a GROW bank account, instead allowing the treasurer keep track of funds.A couple of members agree that we should trust the Treasurer to keep GROW funds in her name with a detailed account monthly sent to the Assistant Treasurer and Secretary unless it is required more often.
- One member likes the option of re-electing the same treasurers, but feels more strongly that the principle of rotation be upheld. She agrees that the Treasurer should keep group funds in her personal account, paying bills from that, and keeping a ledger. She suggests a 3-year term and feels rotation will be easier if the accounting is left to the discretion of each autonomous treasurer.
- One member was neither for nor against the proposal but disagreed with the co-mingling GROW cash with personal accounts.
Annette pointed out that we already have Group Conscience decisions removing the contraints on having the checking account in the treasurer's name. However, we do require a dedicated account so that GROW funds are not confused with personal and to protect the treasurer's personal accounts when copies of statements are sent to the Secretary. She also reminded the group that by GC, the Treasurer had been given permission to ask that checks be made payable to her. She suggests that while this was not a permanent decision, we should consider it. She also asked the former Treasurer what problems she encountered when she opened the dedicated account. She responded that the process she had gone through in opening an account, adding that she still asks for contributions in the GROW name as matter of trust for the group.
Because the checks are made out to GROW and deposited in an account held in her name, some tellers have refused the deposits. She referenced having worked for many large AA functions in many service capacities, and said she would not hesitate to write a check out to the GROW treasurer any more than she would hesitate to put cash in a basket passed at a face to face meeting. She reminded everyone that any Treasurer wanting to spend group money for personal gain could easily do so, even with the account in GROW's name and suggested that it is false security to think we are protected from thievery by writing donation checks out to GROW. She thinks it is impractical to spend a huge amount of effort and time trying to find complicated ways to "safeguard" a few hundred dollars. She reiterated her belief that the proposal breaks tradition, and that permanent leadership goes beyond healthy autonomy. Kris believes the answer is to amend our banking policy, not to turn away from Tradition.
- A member agrees with this and suggests that during this business meeting we might change the July 2003 Group Conscience decision to say that checks are made payable to the treasurer, rather than leaving it to the treasurer to ask.
- A member expressed concern about a group conscience decision of October 2002 requiring that a non-business checking account be in the name of the Treasurer, the Secretary and if possible, the group. She questions how we meet this criteria if the Treasurer and Secretary are in different states, and the expresses concern about both positions being non-rotating.
- A member suggested that we could make changes to the Treasurer position based on suggestions made during the proposal discussion: She listed the following examples:
- We could consider putting our account in the name of the Treasurer instead of in the name of GROW and then....we could consider having donation checks made out to the Treasurer instead of to GROW.
- We could consider having only one signer on the account, the Treasurer.
- We could consider changing the length of term for the Treasurer.
- If the Treasurer feels that it would help her to be relieved of the duty, we could add a GROW position of "Basket-Passer".
- Finally, a member hopes we will continue the discussion in our July meeting, as suggested, reminding us that the question of the treasurer's minimum membership would be on the next agenda.
The Chair suggested that we table the Treasurer/Bank issue for now and look at it again after the next Treasurer has some time in the job. She reminded us that we need to review Tradition 9 and the archivist and webmaster jobs in relation to our statement that "All trusted servant roles are term limited to allow for rotation of leadership."
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Checking Account
Checking Account (8/98)
Decision: Secretary to serve as second signer on checking account in case of emergency.
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General Services Office (GSO) Contributions
GSO Contributions (4/16)
GROW will send 100% of our donations (after Prudent Reserve and our own bills) to the US / Canada General Service Office of AA in New York.
Decision: The proposal was accepted and will stand as is for at least one year.
Discussion: Our Treasurer writes, "I would like to ask the group for clarification regarding our donation to the GSO. In the past we sent 20% of remaining funds to OIAA (after bills and prudent reserve) and 80% to GSO. Last year it was decided we would no longer send OIAA a donation. There was never any formal decision made regarding where that money was to go. Are we sending 100% of our remaining funds to GSO?"
In October 2014, the Group Conscience decision was to discontinue sending funds to OIAA, after that group failed to cash our checks for a period of six months. In reviewing the OIAA report for this business meeting, OIAA does a lot of good work and that decision could be reviewed. GROW has passed our year-long "no revisit" time period. We have also begun to discuss where we want to send our donations. We used to send 20% to OIAA and 80% to GSO, but we discontinued the OIAA donations when they stopped cashing our checks. We want to try to decide on a policy. This topic generated the most discussion. We discussed the merits of sending our contributions to the General Service Office for the United States and Canada. There was some discussion also about other GSOs in other parts of the world. Many members were not aware that the US/Canada GSO is not the GSO for the world. Some explanation was involved for that. The general feeling seems to be that we do not want to contribute to OIAA any longer. We heard the Minority Opinion on sending 100% of our donations (after Prudent Reserve and our own bills) to the US / Canada General Service Office of AA in New York. The minority expressed that while they regard GSO for US and Canada as certainly a worthwhile entity to donate to, that we could donate a percentage to the GSOs in other countries as well. There is outreach to women alcoholics in India through the Australia GSO, for instance. It is good to donate to a number of worthy causes rather than only one, mentioned another. We have members from other nations who would like to see this done by GROW, making us a truly international group of AA women. The votes are in, and the results are 11 in favor and 5 against.
Monthly Fees
Monthly Fees (4/12)
Decision: The Proposal to pay (if needed) a monthly service fee on the GROW checking account is APPROVED.
Comments: The consensus from the group was that paying a $5.00 monthly service charge is reasonable to maintain a checking account for GROW. However, our Treasurer, (who has been in the process of moving to a new home) had very recently moved her own checking account to a credit union, and moved the GROW account, as well, and there is no monthly service charge at this institution. All who expressed an opinion were in agreement with this change.
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OSO-AA
OSO-AA (10/09)
Decision: We will pay OSO-AA $12 a month.
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PayPal
PayPal (10/06)
Decision: We will set up a committee to investigate how PayPal works. The committee will bring their information to the January 2007 Business Meeting.
Proposal: Item 3 - The use of PayPal to contribute to GROW - Tradition 7.
We are presently in the discussion phase at this time as well so far there is not a group consensus.
Comments: I see majority opinion on this item in one respect: We are substantially agreed that Paypal is a good option for making 7th Tradition contributions to GROW. One member had personal dislike for the Paypal system, but there are other options for 7th Tradition contributions that she is able to use. I will consider this consensus.I agree with the suggestion that was made by Cher to form a committee to investigate this further and bring it to our January 2007 business meeting. Would it be to our advantage to have Paypal payments made to each individual treasurer, or should we establish GROW as a payee, and whatever else seems pertinent to that committee.
One member is opposed to PayPal. Everyone else who responded either supports PayPal or is willing to consider it as an option after more information is received. A request was made to ask a committee including a including a Listkeeper, the Treasurer, and the person who brought forth the idea to research the specifics related to GROW.
We are presently in the discussion phase at this time as well so far there is not a group consensus. It seems that although most members are in agreement that PayPal would be beneficial, it has been decided to set up a committee to investigate how PayPal works. The committee will bring their information to the January Business Meeting.
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PayPal Guidelines
PayPal Guidelines (1/07)
PayPal Guidelines [decision by consensus]
Agreed to include PayPal as one option for making 7th Tradition contributions to GROW, and approved the following guidelines:
- GROW will offer PayPal as a method for making 7th Step Contributions.
- GROW will register for PayPal's standard website payment service using an email account established only for this purpose and for use only by the GROW Treasurer and Secretary. The PayPal account and e-mail address will be connected to the account established by the Treasurer for the purposes of GROW finances. The e-mail address will stay the same through Treasurer and Secretary rotations. The password will change with each Treasurer and Secretary.
- The Treasurer's 7th Tradition Letter will stress that PayPal is only one option for contributing to GROW and include the following informational warning to her message:If a member chooses to use PayPal as a payment option, she should be aware of the following:
- PayPal is a safe money-exchange operation if (and only if) you follow their safety
- recommendations, which are posted very clearly on their website.
- Always go to the website through typing in their URL: https://www.paypal.com (note the "s" is important).
- Do not go to the website through a link on any email letter.
- Always assume that an email message sent to you that says it is from PayPal is a scam. PayPal does not send out email to members.
- If you are at all uncomfortable, consider using another means to contribute to GROW.
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Prudent Reserve Amount
Prudent Reserve Amount (7/04)
Decision: We will increase the prudent reserve to $100.
Comments: This item came as a request for input with the Treasurer's Quarterly Report and was not listed as an agenda item. With her report, Karen included a recommendation that we increase our prudent reserve in preparation for the upcoming change in Treasurer and GROW bank account. She suggested increasing our prudent reserve to either a round number of $100 or 12 months worth of expenses for $144.
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Retention of Records
Retention of Records (1/06)
Decision: GROW will maintain bank records for a period of seven years.
Proposal: Treasurer Reports are still under discussion with no concensus reached yet. The breadth of opinions, as Cheryl T. stated, seem to range from keeping all records for all time or just keeping the quarterly Treasurer Reports. The current Treasurer, Annette, reports that she currently has all previous bank statements in her possession.
Comments: The Chair reported that there was no clear consensus on this item yet. Several respondents feel that the quarterly treasurer's report is all we need to maintain. At least one member recommends saving bank statements and receipts, but does not specify how long such items should be saved. Cheryl posted relevant direction from the Treasurer's job description and continued the discussion for another 4 days to see if we can agree on something between keeping all bank statements and canceled group checks/receipts for eternity, and maintaining only quarterly reports? Annette proposed that we save records for 7 years.
The chair asked if there were objections to the following: GROW will maintain bank records for a period of seven years. GROW checking accounts are opened with Treasurer's Social Security number. If a Treasurer was to be audited by IRS and these accounts were discovered, she would need records to prove it was not taxable income to her. Records older than seven years will be destroyed.
Eight out of the eight who responded stated they had no objections